Fluffy Butt Acres: Stories of our flock

[LaFemmeKatia]

Alright... Tuesday I lost a friend. Taz Sullivan was flying his self created aircraft out of Porterville airport CA. crashed and burned near the tree line. He was a great pilot, and a patriot soldier to the USA . He will be missed. But I am still going to fly today, at sunrise my flight plan is confirmed. And I will be back before the chickens even miss me.... RIP Taz

I’m sad to hear that you’ve lost a friend.
Fly carefully.

 

[BY Bob]

I've written about this so much now....
There are some basic problems to do with observation and other problems due to perception.
Observation
Most people do not spend enough time with their chickens to make valid observations on their behaviour. This is a simple fact. It seems from the various polls and posts that the average may be as little as half an hour a day and this seems to usually be when feeding and cleaning. A great deal of normal behaviour just isn't shown when feeding and cleaning; the important stuff goes on when either your not looking or when you are looking so much that the chickens no longer associate you with a limited range of activities and pretty much go about their business as if you were not there.
Coop cams have helped change the keepers ability to watch normal behaviour and people get to see stuff they otherwise would not. This is what has happened with Royal Chick and By Bob just on this thread; maybe others as well.
So, it is reasonably safe to assume that these behaviours have gone on and go on day to day. The problems Phyllis has at roosting and in the coop would probably not be known about without the aid of a coop cam.
I believe it's safe to assume that such behaviours have not suddenly developed; the suddenness is in the keepers ability to observe and recognise.
For those who go to work, be that at home or away from home, their working day does not allow for lengthy observation; an hour or two free range time at the weekend is not going to show much of the chickens natural behaviour.
It drives me to distraction when people post stating their chickens don't behave in a certain way or contradict species specific behaviours when it is apparent that the time they spend watching their chickens is minimal and their interpretation of what is going on is biased. See perception section below.
Yes, chickens are individuals, but they do have species specific behaviour and have more in common between breeds and keeping circumstances than some people want to acknowledge.
Perception
If we could address the following we would all have a better understanding of the species and consequently be able to provide better care.
1) Chickens are not cute and cuddly. From what I've seen they're pretty savage, don't like people much, don't like being picked up, will rip a mouse, or other creature to shreds with any sign or remorse and bully outsiders to death. That cute exception you've got on your lap that you're about to post about to prove me wrong will behave just like the rest given the right circumstances.
2) Chickens do not make good pets and they don't make you breakfast either. They don't lay their eggs for you and no matter how much you may thank them and make silly noises at them the simple fact is you are stealing their potential offspring. Chickens lay eggs to further their genes. You are not even in the equation.
3) Chickens are stupid. Not from what I've seen and not according to the studies I've read either. We haven't quite managed to reduce out ego far enough to recognise they are as smart as we are but with a different skill set yet...
Treat them with some respect for what they are and you'll get a better response from them. If some are more reluctant to engage with humans then let them be.
4) Chickens are not suitable creatures for close confinement. No, they don't like their coops and runs. They know they are imprisoned and as many of you have seen, are just dying to get out at every opportunity. They are not standing at the gate because they are waiting with baited breath for a word or treat from their magnanimous keeper; they want out!
5) Chickens are tribal creatures and not flock creatures. They don't like other chickens that look different to the majority, or are not related.
Chicken don't like strangers. All new comers will be treated with suspicion and often violence. Now comers have to earn their place in the group and no amount of careful integration is going to make the slightest difference in the long run.

My belief is Ribh and some others have fewer social problems because the range of breeds and looks kept is so great that tribal pairing, or grouping is difficult to sustain. If there is a fairly regular influx of new inmates then social bonds are constantly being readjusted. Short term prison management works on a similar principle, no one group gets the time to establish control.
For many chicken keepers this isn't the case and the group is relatively stable over longer periods of time and relationships are formed and held over time.

The solution to most of the behaviour problems is essentially simple. Keep one breed, preferably related and let the chickens choose when to add to the tribe and who hangs with who. Even then, should a stray gene pop up in offspring you can expect that chicken to be picked on. Time and stability and in tribe breeding will often raise the oddball in the hierarchy, but importing company is not a certain route to peace.
The ideal chicken relationship is much like humans. One rooster to one hen with offspring attached until a certain age. Some roosters will mate and breed and move on to another hen, others it seems will stay with one hen for life. Children are tolerated until they become competition.

It has been a while since you posted like this. Thank you for taking the time and for the excellent reminders about the marvelous animals we are all taking care of.

For example: I know they are savage animals but I still get startled from time to time when I am reminded by them. It is important to keep that in mind when observing them to try and understand their behavior.

 

[Grandmas Coop]

So this made me pull out my Veterinary's Guide to Backyard Chickens. Here is what the vet textbook says about softshelled eggs. (paraphrased of course)

Sickness: Certain diseases that affect the oviduct function such as infectious bronchitis or Mycoplasma gallisepticum.

Nutrient deficits: Calcium, Phosphorus, or Vitamin D3

Nutrient excesses: Phosphorus or Vitamin D3

Normal increase: Older layers

Things I think we should all take from this:

1. While it can be caused by disease at some point there would likely be respiratory symptoms.
2. A nutritional deficit of not just Calcium or Vitamin D3 but also Phosphorus can be a cause.
3. Too much Phosphorus and/or Vitamin D3 can also cause it. We need to be careful when supllementing that we do not go too far. This just is a healthy reminder that a quality chicken feed is essential.
4. This becomes more prevalent as chickens age and can just be a by-product of an older hen.

this is Granny Violet,
She is 3, she laid non stop for 2 years, then she would go weeks laying eggs and then go 3X's a week, now, this last 2 weeks she has only laid 3 eggs and last Sat. she laid one that was a good sized egg, membrane in tack but no shell.
she has access to this, all she wants, but she is just older and her body is tired and I dont worry about if she doesn't lay an egg. She is happy, she eats, drinks, digs in the dirt. So, this is just the way it is.

 

[BY Bob]

Nobody seems ill so I think it is likely age.
The excess phosphorus and D3 is a bit worrying (vs. the deficits which I can supplement to overcome).
Hmmm.
I guess I can supplement and see if it get better or worse.
By the way, sunflower seeds have lots of phosphorus. magnesium and manganese.

Seriously though, good feed is very important. It has the vitamins and minerals they need in the proper amounts. I also believe that to to certain extent, they also know what they need. After her softshelled egg, Phyllis chowed down on some oyster shell. That seems to have solved the problem, or it could just have been one of those random eggs that did not follow the correct process.

 

[BY Bob]

this is Granny Violet,
She is 3, she laid non stop for 2 years, then she would go weeks laying eggs and then go 3X's a week, now, this last 2 weeks she has only laid 3 eggs and last Sat. she laid one that was a good sized egg, membrane in tack but no shell.
she has access to View attachment 2710881 this, all she wants, but she is just older and her body is tired and I dont worry about it is she doesn't lay an egg. She is happy, she eats, drinks, digs in the dirt. So, this is just the way it is.


View attachment 2710874View attachment 2710875

At 2 years old a leghorn is already winding down her laying and can certainly be considered and elderly layer. I would not be surprised at all if this falls into that category.

She is a very pretty girl.

 

[RoyalChick]

I've written about this so much now....
There are some basic problems to do with observation and other problems due to perception.
Observation
Most people do not spend enough time with their chickens to make valid observations on their behaviour. This is a simple fact. It seems from the various polls and posts that the average may be as little as half an hour a day and this seems to usually be when feeding and cleaning. A great deal of normal behaviour just isn't shown when feeding and cleaning; the important stuff goes on when either your not looking or when you are looking so much that the chickens no longer associate you with a limited range of activities and pretty much go about their business as if you were not there.
Coop cams have helped change the keepers ability to watch normal behaviour and people get to see stuff they otherwise would not. This is what has happened with Royal Chick and By Bob just on this thread; maybe others as well.
So, it is reasonably safe to assume that these behaviours have gone on and go on day to day. The problems Phyllis has at roosting and in the coop would probably not be known about without the aid of a coop cam.
I believe it's safe to assume that such behaviours have not suddenly developed; the suddenness is in the keepers ability to observe and recognise.
For those who go to work, be that at home or away from home, their working day does not allow for lengthy observation; an hour or two free range time at the weekend is not going to show much of the chickens natural behaviour.
It drives me to distraction when people post stating their chickens don't behave in a certain way or contradict species specific behaviours when it is apparent that the time they spend watching their chickens is minimal and their interpretation of what is going on is biased. See perception section below.
Yes, chickens are individuals, but they do have species specific behaviour and have more in common between breeds and keeping circumstances than some people want to acknowledge.
Perception
If we could address the following we would all have a better understanding of the species and consequently be able to provide better care.
1) Chickens are not cute and cuddly. From what I've seen they're pretty savage, don't like people much, don't like being picked up, will rip a mouse, or other creature to shreds with any sign or remorse and bully outsiders to death. That cute exception you've got on your lap that you're about to post about to prove me wrong will behave just like the rest given the right circumstances.
2) Chickens do not make good pets and they don't make you breakfast either. They don't lay their eggs for you and no matter how much you may thank them and make silly noises at them the simple fact is you are stealing their potential offspring. Chickens lay eggs to further their genes. You are not even in the equation.
3) Chickens are stupid. Not from what I've seen and not according to the studies I've read either. We haven't quite managed to reduce out ego far enough to recognise they are as smart as we are but with a different skill set yet...
Treat them with some respect for what they are and you'll get a better response from them. If some are more reluctant to engage with humans then let them be.
4) Chickens are not suitable creatures for close confinement. No, they don't like their coops and runs. They know they are imprisoned and as many of you have seen, are just dying to get out at every opportunity. They are not standing at the gate because they are waiting with baited breath for a word or treat from their magnanimous keeper; they want out!
5) Chickens are tribal creatures and not flock creatures. They don't like other chickens that look different to the majority, or are not related.
Chicken don't like strangers. All new comers will be treated with suspicion and often violence. Now comers have to earn their place in the group and no amount of careful integration is going to make the slightest difference in the long run.

My belief is Ribh and some others have fewer social problems because the range of breeds and looks kept is so great that tribal pairing, or grouping is difficult to sustain. If there is a fairly regular influx of new inmates then social bonds are constantly being readjusted. Short term prison management works on a similar principle, no one group gets the time to establish control.
For many chicken keepers this isn't the case and the group is relatively stable over longer periods of time and relationships are formed and held over time.

The solution to most of the behaviour problems is essentially simple. Keep one breed, preferably related and let the chickens choose when to add to the tribe and who hangs with who. Even then, should a stray gene pop up in offspring you can expect that chicken to be picked on. Time and stability and in tribe breeding will often raise the oddball in the hierarchy, but importing company is not a certain route to peace.
The ideal chicken relationship is much like humans. One rooster to one hen with offspring attached until a certain age. Some roosters will mate and breed and move on to another hen, others it seems will stay with one hen for life. Children are tolerated until they become competition.

I hope you feel better now!
I agree with the bulk of what you say. However in this particular situation I would point out:
- This is not about my powers of observation. My coop cams are not new and I have never seen anything quite this savage. I observe the morning nest box ritual either live or on camera most mornings. The next most savage attack I have seen was Diana attacking Maggie which was unrelated to the nest boxes and out in the field.
- At this stage nobody is new to anybody (the roadrunners are over a year old) and they roost together just fine having adopted social norms that reduce any chance savagery - basically the roadrunners will fly down and then fly back up if a big Princess wants to pass
So this was definitely an unusual event (though not an unusual victim nor an unusual perpetrator).
Minnie went up into Maggie's nest box but laid her egg in the original one. Maggie laid in her usual place and not in the one she threw Minnie out of. Everyone is out in the long grass now hunting bugs together.

 

[RoyalChick]

It has been a while since you posted like this. Thank you for taking the time and for the excellent reminders about the marvelous animals we are all taking care of.

For example: I know they are savage animals but I still get startled from time to time when I am reminded by them. It is important to keep that in mind when observing them to try and understand their behavior.

Yes, and mine were routinely ripping the mice apart and Dotty tries to do the same to my nose and ankles so I am under no illusions on that front!

 

[Grandmas Coop]

At 2 years old a leghorn is already winding down her laying and can certainly be considered and elderly layer. I would not be surprised at all if this falls into that category.

She is a very pretty girl.

yep, and I let her do what ever she wants, like she found a slug this morning, I dont normally let them eat slugs due to the chance they could get gape worm from them, but, she got it and I made every one stand back- I kept them all at bay , so she could have her prize, hehehehehehe

 

[RoyalChick]

Seriously though, good feed is very important. It has the vitamins and minerals they need in the proper amounts. I also believe that to to certain extent, they also know what they need. After her softshelled egg, Phyllis chowed down on some oyster shell. That seems to have solved the problem, or it could just have been one of those random eggs that did not follow the correct process.

Yes - but I don't know how I could get any better feed. They get Purina Layer Pellets as their feed.
Maybe with all the time roaming they are eating too many grass seeds and bugs and not enough pellets - but you would think that what they find for themselves would be as good as commercial food wouldn't you?

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

My friends... I don’t know what to say. I almost can’t believe it. She went missing 4pm Saturday, I have been balling my eyes out and looking very dangerously high and low for her. Not logging in here, not knowing how to let you all know she was missing. Praying for her to come back. Scanning the sky for vultures and yelling myself hoarse calling for her. I have been walking out to the beach two or three times daily. Last night was my first night sleeping alone since January, with DH in town and the cats all huffy. I was considering emulating Alex and bringing in Sammy for snuggles.

After my post here (thinking it may be days or weeks, if she ever comes back, and hadn’t fallen off the cliff or gotten lost on the other side of the mountains) I made some spaghetti, cried some more and was talking to myself, swearing if she would just come home I would cook her spaghetti just for her, and I headed out again to look for her with just a few hours until dark. She is home! Stuffed, belching, limping slightly, and now snoring on her pillow. Thank you all for the love and thoughts. I am believing that you all brought her back to me! (And she better not be knocked up! Of course we will love her just as much if she is... but I don’t want to have to build too big a barn!)

I am so happy for this news!